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by Achilles.42 Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:21 am

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 Legacy of The Void Beta

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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sun May 10, 2015 5:41 am

Wooo, just got into the Legacy Beta : D  : D  : D  : D  : D  : D
Its installing now, so ill have something more substinitive later
Its a real relief that i got this though, cus i was about to start studying for finals. Luckily now there's no reason to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sun May 10, 2015 9:57 am

first 11 games were all pvzs, except for a couple pvp's.

Ravagers are pretty cool, they give protoss a reason split, and make fights last longer cus you're not engaging all at once, instead of against roach hydra where it can be like "darn my ball lost".
I kept forgetting they nerfed collosus, and would get them, then be like "why the fuck did i get this"

The super death-ball-not-a-mothership-core unit is fun when it works. Very all or nothing, since if you miss a lot of times it then dies. or even if it doesn't die you needed the damage, they're also not great against protoss since toss has so much hp.

I mainly like that you start with so many more workers, makes the start much less monotonous.

-----------------------

its weird that so many people play zerg, after 20 games i've had 3 pvps and no pvts
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Mon May 11, 2015 7:02 pm

Nice, congrats
Bacon and i have been checking to see if we got in periodically but nothing for either of us so far

You should make videos like you did last year, i actually checked your youtube page after reading this post to see if you already had but you didnt Sad

And i think people are playing zerg because they seem OP with the new system, i dont know if they are since i havent played or really watched anything but 1 of my first thoughts on seeing the starting worker count was that zerg would be able to have some nearly unstoppable rushes and that they would be more powerful overall since it seems like you can expand faster, and with the addition of lurkers they have the best unit options now, like they can make a unit composition to answer any other unit composition, plus the collusus nerf makes them way better vs toss
So zerg just seems like the best choice to play if you want to win to me in theory, others probably think the same and are trying zerg to see
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Tue May 12, 2015 8:29 pm

i was really close to making videos!! im sad i didn't now. but i kept getting interrupted while i was in the middle of recording.
I agree about zerg rushes being strong. i held off a 1 base ravager attack for the first time--so proud of myself
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Fri May 29, 2015 9:53 pm

Got it too. Feel like adepts are jsut better zealots for the protoss ball.
Liberators seem kinda weak and the harass potential they showed in the video seems somwhat impossible to properly do in the current map pool.
My early thoughts Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:50 am

adepts are better zealots.
i think i called them super zealots while i was playing. idk if it was a video i saved though.
i accidentally deleted a bunch of videos using hand break to process them. because apparently if you set it to overwrite instead of creating a second file. it just deletes the file. And i didn't realize that was happening at first.

But my work closes this week each year. so this is one of my few bits of time off. so hopefully i'll make TONS of videos. i.e. three. maybe four.



EDIT: also, does the chat not work for anyone else? i might be able to log into chatango propper once i remember my password. it'll come to me. probably.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:31 pm

I like how you sent the adepts up the ramp in phase mode thinking he wouldnt do the things that terran always does lol, its lke that time i tried to blink stalkers up a ledge without vision because i didnt know you needed vision

Zealots seem useless now that adepts are a thing, i guess you would still have to make them though just because they dont cost gas, i wish they just made zealots better instead of adding a strictly better unit

I had almost no desire to play legacy of the void, but after watching that i do now



And yeah the chat is broken, so is the new topic scrolling thing on the side, these things happen when you neglect them for several months
A bunch of stuff behind the scenes is broke too, no one is interested in using the site though so im not going to take the time to fix them, maybe ill fix the chat since thats pretty quick and the only thing thats noticeably broken
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:08 pm

Yeah i understand not wanting to devote the time to fix them. i wouldn't either.
I feel bad for being neglectful for so long ;(
but i know we'd all love you for fixing chat


And adepts do function a lot like that. I like their phase ability.
For some reason half the people i play are making them in pvp, but stalkers make them pretty useless for anything.

I keep forgetting you have to toggle the shield for immortals now. i played like 20ish games before i even knew it was a thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:42 am

omgosh. they  removed all macro mechanics. no mules, no chrono, and spawn larva auto injects 2 at a time now, instead of four.

im reserving judgement for now. i always felt like mules gave more of a boost than chrono did to the economy. but chrono is obviously more versatile. But, they already reduced warpgate and disrupter research/build times. so so far i dont mind it.

They also made the disrupter easier to use. instead of suiciding it at groups of units, you send out a controllable energy ball that does the same damage.

The obnoxious part is chrono was a bigger part of protoss macro overall, so im constantly randomly trying to chrono stuff and im like "oh right."

Whereas mules you only used on minerals, and they had a larger interval where you couldn't use them. inject larva was pretty huge, but it didn't really give the zerg an edge, it was just something you had to do or you wouldn't have enough larva.

The cool thing i just thought of is that scan/supply drop are now things you can choose to utilize, instead of just being bad whenever you had to use them instead of mules.

--------------------------------

also, warping in at a pylon now takes 16 seconds. but, if the pylon power is touching a nexus it takes 2 seconds. which is faster than it was before i think. Also, warp in at a warp prism also takes two seconds. I like that they made warp prisms more effective for harass, and defensive warp ins more effective.

Now though, theres gonna be a drop, you're gonna warp in and be like "oh shit. not touching the nexus"
nexus dies. game lost Razz
----
zerg is so much easier to play for me... it feels so much easier without injects. maybe it doesn't make as big a difference if you've been playing zerg as your main. but i like it soooo much more.

As protoss i miss chrono though ;(
----

terran its nice to have scans/supply drops, and  you can justify making the orbital for 150 mins, since 2 supply drops = 200.

Terran always worst race though Razz
----

Funny glitch, right now immortals spawn as grey disks. but if you use their shield ability you can see their outline. i assume they'll fix that soon lol

#tripple post
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:55 pm

Wow they really are shaking things up. i feel like all the macro nerfs hurt prot and terran more than zerg. Also i still think making the immortal sheild an active is the dumbest thing
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:43 pm

i've been playing a lot of zerg games. its a lot of fun without larva injects for me
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:13 pm

Here is the details of the patch ach is talking about, with blizzards thoughts/reasoning for each change:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19875306/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-preview-august-20-8-20-2015

I doubt that most of these changes will stick, 16 seconds on warp in is way too long, especially since the pylon can be killed during that time and you lose all your warping stuff, all this will do is make people use warp prisms to warp in outside of your base, might even be worth putting prisms in strategic locations, like how you would put pylons in those places

They said they want to test an extreme number, but this is too extreme and wont actually give any usable test data, other than the expected result of everyone using warp prisms on offense instead of pylons, the defensive warp in change is good though

I guess it slows early aggression and makes it harder to go stargate since youd skip the warp prisms and have a hard time with ground reinforcements until you got them, but even if that was their goal, 16 is still too high

What you said about the nexus dieing to a drop and losing the game is true in some situations with the 16 second warp ins

Spoiler:
 



The macro changes are very extreme and kindve strange to see, when i first read your post i thought you were joking since toss and zerg need chrono/inject, but then i looked up the patch notes and initially hated the removal of the macro mechanics, but then i gave it some thought and came around to liking the idea but wishing it was implemented differently

My initial hate came from what i said above, toss and zerg need chrono/inject, removing them would nerf them so hard, toss would take forever to build/research anything, and zerg wouldnt have enough larva to do anything, but then i thought about how annoying it is to have to inject larva all the time and liked that it was an auto cast
I would play a lot more zerg if i didnt have to do the tedious, repetitive and boring task of injecting larva all the time in every game, and i do like the removal of mule since mule can be OP in the late game, but toss still needs chrono imo and id rather not see the removal of any of it

So i came up with a better idea for it, rather than removing the macro mechanics entirely just change them slightly, all in more or less the same way, make a button (like W for warp gate) that is the macro mechanic button, pressing it lets you use inject/chrono/mule

Spoiler:
 

Also, under my system, you can still activate all the macro abilities manually like weve always been able to as well, so if you like manual injecting/chrono or if you want to send a mule to repair a unit out in the field you still can

I think something like my macro button is better than just removing things or setting them to autocast, my changes make it a lot easier then what it used to be which seems to be their goal, but at least the options are still there


That ended up being longer than i intended
As a summary, here are the changes i would like to see based on the changes they made, instead of the changes they made

Warp in Changes

  • Warp in time increased to 10 seconds
  • Warp in time next to a nexus/warpgate decreased to 2 seconds
  • Added a Warp Speed upgrade to the cyber core requiring a robo or stargate that reduces warp in times to 4 seconds next to a pylon, and 1 second next to a nexus/warpgate
  • The Grav Drive upgrade for warp prisms now also reduce the time it takes to warp in to a warp prism to 2 seconds if you have the Warp Speed upgrade

Macro Changes

  • Added a Macro Button that you can press to make macro easier, similar to how the warp gate button is always usable
  • Inject Larva: A Queen will now inject larva into the nearest eligible hatchery within range each time the Macro Button is pressed
  • Chrono: A building that you have selected is chronoed each time the Macro Button is pressed
  • Mule: A mule will be summoned on a mineral patch near the Orbital Command that summons it each time the Macro Button is pressed

    • Mules cannot collect minerals unless they were summoned by an Orbital Command that is receiving minerals from at least 6 scvs
    • Mules cannot collect minerals unless there are at least 6 scvs mining from the same group of minerals that the mule is mining from
    • Mules can now be salvaged to return energy to the Orbital Command that summoned it, the energy returned is based on the time left on the Mule’s timed life


  • Inject Larva, Chrono Boost, and Mule can all still be used manually


But personally i dont think warp in time needs to be adjusted and the complete removal of the macro mechanics is just lazy, like they cant think of how to make it more fun so they just remove it

Imo, the only 1 that needs a change is inject larva (other than those mule fixes i mentioned to stop mule abuse in the late game), really all they would need to do is make it so if you inject larva on 1 hatchery all of your queens next to a hatchery try to inject larva into the hatch that they are next to and that would take out almost all of the tedium without just automating it



Im glad they buffed zealots a bit so they arent completely outclassed by adepts, but adepts still seem like the better choice unless you are against a lot of lings

And the immortal shield active is pretty silly, if it was more powerful and more interesting than "Gain 200 shields" then maybe it could be cool but it feels like a placeholder ability since gaining shields is so basic
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:41 pm

Late game you'd float your old orbitals over to fresh mineral patches and alternate landing them... it'd be pretty funny to watch, and it'd take so much micro it wouldn't be advantageous like mass mules are now.

I like your ideas for the macro mechanics.
I inititially hated the blizzard changes too until i played with them a bit. I really miss chrono...
But the auto injects are good

And you're right, its weird they removed them instead of figuring out how to make them more fun.

Whats weird about the warp in change is it doesn't have to be a nexus like i thought, just in range of another pylon. So if you make two proxy pylons instead of one its actually a buff instead of a nerf.

I havn't had a problem with people sniping my offensive pylons (yet) and losing the warp in, but i have had a problem warping in at home.
I think it'd make more sense if it just had to be touching any other building. since you wont always have multiple pylons touching, but you will almost always have multiple buildings touching.

And its more expensive to warp in another building offensively than another pylon, so it wouldn't make rushes any more effective.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:07 pm

so now everything is auto cast. they buffed inject from 2 larva, to 3.
Mules auto cast to the nearest mineral patch. and chrono was nerfed to 20% faster from whatever it was, and now it autocasts on one building per nexus.
it has a one second cd. which i wish they'd make longer, cus if you have 4 nexi, and 4 buildings you want to chrono that arn't all on the same screen. you have to select individual nexuses, or it'll just use the first nexus you cast once the cd is done.

They also need to improve the system for pylon power/warpin. they fixed the 'glitch' that you could just have two proxy pylons and get hte 2 second warp ins, but now sometimes a pylon is touching the nexus and it still takes 16 seconds... im not really sure what range it has to be from the building, but its obnoxious.
I liked the old chrono more. it makes it easier, but it wasn't like inject larva where it was just a big obnoxious extra thing to keep track of. but maybe once i get used to it it'll be better. it is easier to keep your probes chrono, since, ya know, ya dont have to do anything. which i guess is the main idea. i'm glad they didn't remove teh ability to use it on other structures.

oh, and i got diamond league back when i stopped playing zerg. yyaaayyyy. since i have chrono again there's a reason to play toss Razz

liberators get out'a control sometimes. if terran gets too many of them and you didn't spot it soon enough to get blink stalkers/pheonix you're kinda screwed.
Lurkers are very similar in that respect in that if you dont see them coming you trade horribly against them. The interesting thing about lurkers is they make HT not as good, but disrupters are pretty good at countering them. Disrupters feel pretty OP against most ground forces. but they dont hit air.
Ravagers are a lot of fun, and they also give zerg a nice way to pick apart siege tank lines, and liberators, since its hard to get out'a range of their micro ability.

they really need to give you a notice in game if your tournament is about to start. so far i've lost far more from missing the start time then actually playing.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:42 pm

They made some more balance changes awhile ago. i wont go through all of them formally, but just the ones i noticed the most playing.

Disrupter: old price, 100/300, new price, 150/150
Old ability, suicidal death ball. new ability, same damage, but sends out an energy ball. disrupter no longer invulnerable.
It made the disrupter better, because before you would bleed them off in most cases, and now, the more you get, the more you're able to create a wall of destruction as you advance.
They're most effective against bio, and roach hydra. they're countered pretty well by liberators (cus of the whole air thing), but ravagers and lurkers dont work that great. Lurkers aren't a counter, but in some instances people out played me with them. but disrupter feels like it forces them to switch to muta.

Photon overcharge now only lasts 11 seconds. I think 30 or 25 (whatever it was before) was too much, but 11 is a little extreme on the other end. However, its still a great ability, so maybe not.
its funny how you can pylon/mothership rush peoples bases now. takes cannon rushing to a whole new level. and i like how you spread pylons aggressively defensively to protect your bases. rather than trying to stay as tightly packed as possible to prevent them from being picked off. It makes army placement more fun since you aren't huddling behind/around a nexus.

they took away auto injects for larva. but, its queue-able, (to the point of no energy) so if you're perfect, you'll have to inject at the same rate as hots, but if you miss some injects, you can queue them and not worry about it for a bit.

I think this is good, since it'll let you recover from missing injects more easily, whereas before once you started gaining energy, i would just never get them back to zero.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:58 pm

Adepts are still OP dood. But the new UI is really a step in the right direction.
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PostSubject: Re: Legacy of The Void Beta   Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:21 am

What specifically? they're pretty good at harass, pretty good early game, but they dont scale that well. just better than zealots. and like pat has said, it'd be nice if they had a more unique roll than zealots after the early harass, so they weren't like a replacement.
They're easy to let do a lot of damage if you dont know how to deal with them, but so is any harass unit the first times you see them in your mineral line.
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