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 the world's all about ach

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Serenity09
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:42 pm

zerg doesnt need more apm it just needs more of the right kind of apm. you have to be really aware of everything all the time and seize the right opportunities and pass on the wrong ones. zerg is a bit odd in what mistakes its forgiving of. if you lose a lot of your army to a fight you really shouldnt have tried, thats potentially okay, but if you make an oversight that your opponent capitalizes on than youre 100% fucked

and ive never seen a toss fast expand in a 1v1 evenly matched zerg work well
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Pat1487
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:52 am

Serenity09 wrote:
zerg doesnt need more apm it just needs more of the right kind of apm. you have to be really aware of everything all the time and seize the right opportunities and pass on the wrong ones
Thats what i meant by more apm

Serenity09 wrote:
and ive never seen a toss fast expand in a 1v1 evenly matched zerg work well
Forge fast expand was really popular against zerg for a long time
In hots its a bit different (it should still work though)
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:19 pm

I got matched against platnum again.
The first time i felt like i only lost because i wasn't watching my army closely enough on the minimap, and lost my early supply lead. then over committed when i got the advantage. (it was a pvp)

Then, the next time i got a matchup it was against zerg, things were even at first. i held off the first lings, but then he baneling busted my base down. I had had a warpgate and pylons walling off my ramp to the main (no expansion), but i was wondering if theres more specific stuff you can do to defend from banelings.

----------------
Serenity09 wrote:
ive never seen a toss fast expand in a 1v1 evenly matched zerg work well
Not the best examples, but still



----------------
EDIT: omg blizzard. what do i have to do to make you happy?

i beat 4 plat people today, lost to two, and it still wont promote me to plat.
I'm developing a serious hatred for cheese.
I had beaten two plat in a row, and i think it wanted to promote me, but then i went on a 4 loss streak to cannon rushes and zelot rushes Sad
i was at number 1 and 2 the whole time, even after that loss streak my ranking didn't go down. then finally after a few games i slipped to 4, and i was like "screw this"

i swear. gold league seems like it has more cheese than silver did.
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Pat1487
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:22 pm

Achilles.42 wrote:
Then, the next time i got a matchup it was against zerg, things were even at first. i held off the first lings, but then he baneling busted my base down. I had had a warpgate and pylons walling off my ramp to the main (no expansion), but i was wondering if theres more specific stuff you can do to defend from banelings.

Make sentries to block your ramp with a force field at the last possible second and focus fire the banelings as they come up,
get 2 cannons (you can make more than that, just make sure they can all attack the area behind the force field that you make, and dont go crazy with it) with the extra minerals and group them with your units and have them focus fire too, once you have the cannons dump extra minerals into zealots and stop making sentries once you have a good number and start making stalkers

Depending on how many banelings you can kill like that you can decide whether to try to move out or not, if you do decide to move out dont let your army ball up and use force fields to control the flow of his units

If you dont kill enough banelings and decide not to more out, eventually the zerg will just sit outside your base to contain you and then goes macro crazy (and will probably get a spire to transition to muta), so get out a warp prism (do this earlier then when he stops coming up), hide it from being seen, fly it over to his base with a few zealots inside, unload and warp some more into his base, then tear through his mineral line (you have a short window to do this, it has to be before he gets his spire, kill the spire asap if you see it building while your zealots are there, also kill the gas collecting drones first)
If he moves his drones, send 3 zealots to chase them around, use the rest to kill tech buildings, start with the baneling nest and roach warren) and use some of those zealots to catch drones that loop around as the other 3 zealots chase them)

Once you have like 6-8 zealots in his mineral line move the warp prism to his natural and start warping in there (ideally you want to be moving the warp prism between warp ins, but dont worry too much about that if you dont have the apm for it)
He will either pull his army back (so check for that) or try to base trade with you, the sentries should be able to stop a base trade
If he makes units to defend with they will probably be roaches or lings that he morphs to banes asap and zealots will lose to both so kill the lings before or as they morph, and if its roaches just do as much damage as you can before running away

While all that is happening use your gas to get a colossus out and once you have a colossus move out with the main army, and you should be able to clean up everything (use force fields with those sentries to funnel/trap banes/lings so the colossus mops them all up)

If he gets spire before you get the warp prism in you're pretty much screwed, you can try warping in stalkers instead of zealots, but then you wont have a way of dealing with the main ling/bane army later since you wont have the gas to get out a colossus



And yesterday you talked about dealing with cannon rushes that attack the buildings on your main ramp
Kill everything that gives vision to the high ground after you kill his probe, if he managed to get a finished cannon on the high ground in your base next to your ramp then you're screwed
You can try getting an immortal out with chrono and killing off that high ground cannon with whatever army you have once the immortal is out, it does take awhile for cannons to kill buildings so you might be able to get an immortal out before your buildings go down, but its not ideal

If he doesnt have vision of the stuff on your high ground then make sure he cant get more probes up and get out immortal/zealot/stalker asap and stomp him
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Eat_bacon_daily
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:28 pm

you guys playing Hots or Wol? I got back my CDs so i can reinstall them. Maybe ill teach you NON-DIAMONDS a few things.
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:26 pm

WoL.

You should fo sure reinstall.
why'd you delete the files in the first place?  ; (

Were you diamond in 1v1's or teams?
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Pat1487
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:59 pm

He was diamond in 1v1 back in 2010, hes gold now


Also i played an unranked 1v1 as a warm up (i was planning to do placements since you werent around and i was bored)
It was PvP and the guy was surprisingly nice, he said gl hf at start, then he said "want to agree to no cannon rushes" and i said "ok" fully expecting him to troll me and cannon rush but he didnt

I did 3gate robo on 1 base and pushed around 8mins and won and the guy said "well played" i was amazed, it was the best public sc2 ladder experience ive ever had, especially in unranked
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:08 am

Quote :
WoL.

You should fo sure reinstall.
why'd you delete the files in the first place? ; (

Were you diamond in 1v1's or teams?
I was hoping you guys would only be playing WoL, not sure if my comp can handle HOTS. I deleted it from my comp a while back because i can barely run the game. Takes no joke 10-15 to start it up and every game i join, i enter like 20 seconds to a min late.

Quote :
He was diamond in 1v1 back in 2010, hes gold now


Also i played an unranked 1v1 as a warm up (i was planning to do placements since you werent around and i was bored)
It was PvP and the guy was surprisingly nice, he said gl hf at start, then he said "want to agree to no cannon rushes" and i said "ok" fully expecting him to troll me and cannon rush but he didnt

I did 3gate robo on 1 base and pushed around 8mins and won and the guy said "well played" i was amazed, it was the best public sc2 ladder experience ive ever had, especially in unranked
For the record, i was diamond when it was the highest possible league, which makes me super jesus
Ya i got gold now, guess they decayed me. Played 2 games at some friends house and won them both (I still got it).

And i also noticed Sc2 people are so nice! Especially compared to league!
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:17 am

I've met a lot of people that were plat or diamond but are gold now on the ladder.

i've had a lot of good ladder experiences. As you may have noticed im a tad expressive on the interwebs, so i get to experience the full range of trollery, flametasticness, and all the nice players too. there's a lot of nice players. Its cool when you meat people that are better than you, but actually want to be helpful.
I start out being one of the super nice ones. But if people are assholes to me i do my best to flame them and block communication before they have a chance to respond (i figure that must be infuriating for people).

(like one guy, i was playing unranked, and he got lucky and did i drop while i had my army out of position, and i ended up losing cuz he was able to float his buildigns away as terran.
so after the base swap, i was like "is this ranked for you?"
him: "why?"
"its unranked for me, so i figure i can just give you the win and not drag this out"
him "just quit, dude, you're gonna lose"
me: "dont tell me to quit.. i was about to be nice"
him: "i have more skills than you anyway. just leave"
i proceeded to flame him to the best of my abilities, cuz to me that was some childish bullshit responses to my attempts to be congenial

i tried to find his army to force an engagement, cuz he never had an army advantage on me, before he was able to get his forces back up, but he snuck in and killed only pylon
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:02 pm

So. this game made me go 'oh em gee' in so many ways.

It started off with me doing my normal thing, throwing down pylon gateway. but i decided to change things up and not be super scrub face, and i actually sent out a scout after the gateway.

he gets to to the terranes base (this is a PvT) and all i see is a single supply depot trying its best to block the ramp. and im like "sonz a bitchez. he's proxying" so i throw down a forge in place of my cybo core, chrono boost out two zealots, and throw my probe to scout for his proxy. which he finds. luckily cannons > rinse, so i was fine.

I keep doing everything normally and i get out an immortal (all the while producing probes as best i can ofc)
and i decide to be super sneaky (since he now had bunkers blocking my natural) and i got a warp prism, picked up my immortal and 2 zealots, and dropped them in his base.

He actually surrounded the immortal instantly with scvs and managed to kill it, but i warped in 3 more zealots to do whatever damage they could to his econ. but i didn't pay attention to them, cuz i figured he'd clean them up like he cleaned up the immortal and avoid losing scvs. (After the game though. i looked at the graphs and discovered my zealots killed nearly all his scvs, so WOOPS)

i had a good enough army at this point, and i chased away his lame contain. but he had actually JUST retreated. so i didn't really do any damage. the barracks had already been floated away.

i was getting really pissed though, because it was at like the 15 minute mark, and i discovered i only had 12 probes mining minerals, and i thought i had been doing a really good job macro'ing. and what was really annoying was it was actually less probes then when i had checked my probe count 5 minutes previously.

i then look and realize i had 30 probes mining a single vespine guesser
D: D: D: D:
at this point i nearly loosed it. i was laughing so hard at myself i was hard for me to keep macro'ing and finish getting up the expansion i wanted.

luckily i got control of myself and burned through his base with gateway units immortals and a few void rays.
(he had gone tanks + vikings, so i didn't want go colossus. plus, void rays are the answer for everything)

-----------------

also, i discovered cannon rushes aren't that hard to hold off.
i put 2 probes on his probe. 3 probes on each pylon and cannon as he places them, which leaves most of my probes mining, and it seems to hold it off without much trouble. (with 2 probes on 1, the 1 seems to die really quickly since its trying to place buildings)
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Pat1487
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:16 pm

Achilles.42 wrote:
i then look and realize i had 30 probes mining a single vespine guesser
LMFAO
I hate when that happens though, ive never been that bad, sometimes i put 4 workers on gas by mistake, but i have rallied next to the minerals instead of on them, and ive forgotten to set a rally for a new expansion (i usually fix both of these by 4-6 idle workers)

Achilles.42 wrote:
also, i discovered cannon rushes aren't that hard to hold off.
i put 2 probes on his probe. 3 probes on each pylon and cannon as he places them, which leaves most of my probes mining, and it seems to hold it off without much trouble. (with 2 probes on 1, the 1 seems to die really quickly since its trying to place buildings)

3 probes per building and 2 for the probe that is building is 5 probes for 1 pylon, you are losing tons of mining from that
"Good" cannon rushers will build a pylon on the low ground outside your vision first and work their way in, those that build blatantly in your base where you can pull probes off to kill it are complete noobs
Pulling probes off like you are will work on those complete noobs, but it probably wont work on the other type
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AmAzIn[G]
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:21 pm

wow, wtf. I have never seen a cannon rush that started in your base. You're playing against noob rushes.
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:45 pm

pat1487 wrote:
LMFAO
I hate when that happens though, ive never been that bad, sometimes i put 4 workers on gas by mistake, but i have rallied next to the minerals instead of on them, and ive forgotten to set a rally for a new expansion (i usually fix both of these by 4-6 idle workers)
yeah. whats also really annoying is if you rally workers ontop of a single worker, or else order a bunch of workers to mine, but misclick ontop of the worker. cuz then they patrol with the worker, and its harder to notice cuz they're isn't that clump of inactive probes.
Thats why i didn't notice for so long, when you have a lot of probes in on gas, it doesn't look like much more than 3, just because they all wait RIGHT ontop of eachother. 0 collision ftl.

-----------------

And thats because you've never played sc2 amaz--not because people dont do it.

people dont practice cheese. therefore even if someone is gold, plat, or diamond, they'll still do the cheese really badly because they don't realize they have to practice it like everything else.

also, some people will just throw down pylons behind your mineral line to make you freak out and make you think a cannon rush is coming, and then they cancel the pylons before they finish.
But if you shut things down quickly you cant tell if it was a noob or a fake.

And if you did play. someone knowing how to build a cannon would probably be the most difficult opponent you face. everyone else would still be struggling to figure out how to build a forge by the time you get frustrated you cant figure out the tech-tree and just move out with a horde of workers.
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:44 pm

i got platinum in 3v3's all by my lonesome
cuz you kids couldn't take me to the places i wanted to go Razz
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Pat1487
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:22 pm

1v1 is the only 1 that counts


I started watching Bronze League Heroes, its hilarious
My favorite so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8onkv0eEfXo
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:32 pm

Pat1487 wrote:
1v1 is the only 1 that counts


I started watching Bronze League Heroes, its hilarious
My favorite so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8onkv0eEfXo

1v1 is the only one thats competitive. and the only one where rankings are really meaningful.

I mentioned it because
1) plat is shiny and who doesn't love it
2) it kinda shows how not meaningful it is since somone thats only gold can get plat with only a few games (it took less than 5 or 6 games, after i placed into silver in my placement matches)
3) we had done aranged teams and gotten stuck in bronze league. so i thought it was funny that i got plat on my own.
------

bronze league heroes is hilarious.
i started watching it when i was still in silver, and it was motivating cuz i realized i was making too many of the mistakes that those players were making : P
and oh em gee. planetary fortress rush ftw
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:00 pm

Oh yeah, i honestly have no idea how we placed into bronze, with 3 wins and 2 losses, didnt even think that was possible

And i think you are plat level now, even though it hasnt moved you up yet
Your toss play is at least
I know i said that phoenix idea you did in those 2 games we played awhile ago was a bad idea, but it was pretty creative/unexpected and you did execute it well, in the 2nd game where you won i didnt miss micro in that first battle or anything, i actively decided not to snipe down the phoenix (since the game before that where i won it made me feel like the phoenix wasnt a threat at all) and it turns out that was a bad idea


Also i was thinking about getting hots, even though they barely added anything i do like a lot of the changes they made to toss
Sentry has hallucinate by default, the oracle as a proper worker harass unit (void rays arent technically meant for harassing workers, not like mutas or banshees are, but it was all toss really had for air harass so people did it anyway), you can warp units onto a ramp (which i hate not being able to do in wol), and the mothership core abilities, specifically photon overcharge
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:11 pm

Pat1487 wrote:
Oh yeah, i honestly have no idea how we placed into bronze, with 3 wins and 2 losses, didnt even think that was possible
i think i mentioned this. but i also went 4-1 with someone and we only placed into silver Sad

pat1487 wrote:

And i think you are plat level now, even though it hasnt moved you up yet
Your toss play is at least
Thanks. :-)
im actually planning to use the "leave league" option, and see if it bumps me up to plat.
i was reading some stuff on forums, and it seems like that makes it so the system is much more likely to promote or demote you if you use the leave league thing.
and i know i can work back to gold without an issue if it demoted me to silver, so that wouldn't even be an issue.

pat1487 wrote:

I know i said that phoenix idea you did in those 2 games we played awhile ago was a bad idea, but it was pretty creative/unexpected and you did execute it well, in the 2nd game where you won i didnt miss micro in that first battle or anything, i actively decided not to snipe down the phoenix (since the game before that where i won it made me feel like the phoenix wasnt a threat at all) and it turns out that was a bad idea
: D

yeah. it is really risky. but it can be worth it. i've never done it in any ranked games i think.

pat1487 wrote:

Also i was thinking about getting hots, even though they barely added anything i do like a lot of the changes they made to toss
Sentry has hallucinate by default, the oracle as a proper worker harass unit (void rays arent technically meant for harassing workers, not like mutas or banshees are, but it was all toss really had for air harass so people did it anyway), you can warp units onto a ramp (which i hate not being able to do in wol), and the mothership core abilities, specifically photon overcharge
thats my feeling too. harass and scouting is just such a pain with toss. but with hallucinate and oracles it should be much more fair. and nexus over charge i THINK makes it easier to stave off those damned rushes, which account for about 75% of my losses vs everyone thats not platinum and up.

I actually already got HOTS though. (Yesterday) i just haven't installed it cuz i wanted to enjoy anticipating playing it.

EDIT: also, i virtually always lose to broodlord corrupter if i let zerg go too long into the late game. and it looks like tempests are really good at snipping the broodlords. even though the zerg just backs off after one of them dies. But it looks like tempest 3 shot broodlords, which is awesome.
(from 17 minutes)
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Achilles.42
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:38 pm

ya know how we went 3-2 and placed bronze, pat? i did 3v3's today--went 3-2--placed into plat. lulz.

i did think it was cool we got to get crushed by that masters player though. thats the first time i've been matched up with someone that was 'currently' ranked masters. (not counting the team bs that dunnent matter)
----
also. apparently your MMR isn't separate between hots and liberty (at least for unranked), because i did some unranked games and got matched with a gold, plat, diamond spread. which is fairly usual for the matches i get.
the diamond is a bit anomalous, but not really.

and i won 2 of my placement matches so far (3 to go). but my lag definitely got worse on HOTS. I drop down to 0 fps some times, which is a tad bit annoying. i think it'll be a bit better if i keep more space free on HD. i accidentally let it get full, which was when it was worst.
I deleted 11 gb of stuffs, but i should probably leave at least 25 free.

Im opening 3gate + stargate tho, like we were playing around with, which is working really well.
i did a ton of damage to even the plat and diamond players (both terran) even though they through up turrets. its a lot easier to get yourself in a good position than it is with banshees, since they're so agile, and you only need one.

i havn't had to deal with any early rushes yet though. but im hoping having the mothership core out before my oracles will be fast enough to hold anything they throw at me.
----

people tend to leave widow mines at your third/fourth. to delay the first worker.
and me being an idiot it takes at least 3 or 4 dead scouts before i remember that invisible mines are a thing.
----

ALSO! i was right. tempests completely negate siege lines. even with vikings.
i had 6 tempests + the regular deathball of protoss units, and i just seperated the tempests and the rest of my units into 2 control groups, put the army on hold position and focused down everything i could with tempests.
And he had a serious cloud of vikings, since he had seen me go colossus earlier, and i had committed to that. but you can easily kill off the vikings if they try anything. both with tempest micro, and by the fact that your army will kill them if they get too close.
PLUS. even if you cant get a observer to spot the high ground, you can just suicide a oracle and use revelation, so, im glad there's an easy way to engage siege lines in the late game now.

going straight to tempest though is definitely a failsauce move.
i basically only get them when im at 150 food or so, and about to max out.
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:17 am

Me and ach got hots btw


Achilles.42 wrote:
ya know how we went 3-2 and placed bronze, pat? i did 3v3's today--went 3-2--placed into plat. lulz.
I looked into how the matchmaking works cause placing into bronze like that was bull
I found this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273

Basically when we lost to that bronze AT that double ling/drone all-in rushed us it wrecked our team MMR and since it was 1 of our last placements we couldnt get our MMR back up so it put us in bronze

Who you win/lose to is more important then how many wins/losses you have
Losing to a bronze, even if its cheese, will wreck your MMR, where as losing to a diamond/masters will barely effect your MMR at all, and winning to a bronze will barely raise your MMR and winning to masters/diamond will raise it by a lot (unless your MMR is close to 1 of those sides in which case it would be like normal)


And you placed into 3v3 plat cause your RT and 1v1 MMR are tied together (which should mean your solo MMR is high enough for you to place into 1v1 plat)
It also means you can artificially inflate your 1v1 MMR by letting RTs carry you, so like if you start losing a lot in 1v1 you can fix your MMR with easy 4v4 RTs (unless you get unlucky and have terrible teammates, and/or good enemies)

Achilles.42 wrote:
also. apparently your MMR isn't separate between hots and liberty (at least for unranked), because i did some unranked games and got matched with a gold, plat, diamond spread. which is fairly usual for the matches i get.
the diamond is a bit anomalous, but not really.
It uses your past MMR to match you up when doing new placements, i assume that includes wol MMR for when you first get hots
I dont know if it would use my MMR from 2 years ago if i started playing 1v1 or RT again

Achilles.42 wrote:
and i won 2 of my placement matches so far (3 to go). but my lag definitely got worse on HOTS. I drop down to 0 fps some times, which is a tad bit annoying. i think it'll be a bit better if i keep more space free on HD. i accidentally let it get full, which was when it was worst.
I deleted 11 gb of stuffs, but i should probably leave at least 25 free.
If you turn off the physics option it should run better, you should check your setting against, some of mine were changed (like it put my physics to Extreme, which i dont think even existed for wol)

Achilles.42 wrote:
Im opening 3gate + stargate tho, like we were playing around with, which is working really well.
i did a ton of damage to even the plat and diamond players (both terran) even though they through up turrets. its a lot easier to get yourself in a good position than it is with banshees, since they're so agile, and you only need one.
2 turrets/cannons/spores should be able to cover everything, there was 1 game that we played where someone did this, it was between the hatchery and mineral line so his drones did have to walk around the spores, but 2 of them covered every angle cept like 1 where you could kill gas workers 1 at a time but he used the queen for that

Remember when i said there was no downside to opening with stargate, as we played those game i realized there is a downside, you have no splash to deal with mass numbers of little units, only way to deal with that is to get templar which takes much longer then 3gate robo since you can just put down the robo bay for colossus, and templar need 2 tech buildings and an upgrade
I guess you could but down the robo and the robo bay and start a colossus after stargate if you're on 2 base but its still 2 tech buildings and the build time of the colossus which might be a bit faster then the upgrade time of storm, but still too slow


Achilles.42 wrote:
ALSO! i was right. tempests completely negate siege lines. even with vikings.
i had 6 tempests + the regular deathball of protoss units, and i just seperated the tempests and the rest of my units into 2 control groups, put the army on hold position and focused down everything i could with tempests.
And he had a serious cloud of vikings, since he had seen me go colossus earlier, and i had committed to that. but you can easily kill off the vikings if they try anything. both with tempest micro, and by the fact that your army will kill them if they get too close.
PLUS. even if you cant get a observer to spot the high ground, you can just suicide a oracle and use revelation, so, im glad there's an easy way to engage siege lines in the late game now.

going straight to tempest though is definitely a failsauce move.
i basically only get them when im at 150 food or so, and about to max out.

Yeah, i shouldve made them in that game with the swarm hosts, i was trying to figure out a way to deal with swarm hosts the whole time they were coming into our base and i eventually realized tempest was the only solution, but by that time i had no gas and no way to mine any more since we were contained

Still though, i feel like the cost of tempests are too much to deal with stuff that costs half as much
Plus the stuff that costs half as much are more effective in general, where as the tempest is specifically designed for tanks/swarm hosts
The only thing they counter that costs about the same are broodlords, but even broodlords are more effective in general



Also, i have a bronze league hero quality replay to show you ach
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:30 am

Pat1487 wrote:

I found this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
ooohhh. thats really good to know. especially the part about me being able to inflate my 1v1 MMR with random team games. i assumed those ratings were completely different.


pat1487 wrote:

2 turrets/cannons/spores should be able to cover everything, there was 1 game that we played where someone did this, it was between the hatchery and mineral line so his drones did have to walk around the spores, but 2 of them covered every angle cept like 1 where you could kill gas workers 1 at a time but he used the queen for that
wut'a pain.
Luckilly not too many people seem to do that
pat1487 wrote:

Remember when i said there was no downside to opening with stargate, as we played those game i realized there is a downside, you have no splash to deal with mass numbers of little units, only way to deal with that is to get templar which takes much longer then 3gate robo since you can just put down the robo bay for colossus, and templar need 2 tech buildings and an upgrade
I guess you could but down the robo and the robo bay and start a colossus after stargate if you're on 2 base but its still 2 tech buildings and the build time of the colossus which might be a bit faster then the upgrade time of storm, but still too slow
it does make the transition to collosus harder. but i like having voidrays mixed in with collosi so they aren't as exposed to vikings (since they'll have to target the collosus for hte vikings to shoot anything but the voids), so its changing the timing of my units, but not my overall unit composition. and since its easier to turtle as toss now im less worried about that transition.
i was even able to be aggressive in a game against a diamond before i was on collosus. i moved up with all gateway units and a couple voidrays and sniped his expansion, then mass recalled back home.
which game me time to get a couple collosus out and start a third.

i promptly died to a huge ball of Marine Marauder Medivac though, because im terrible.
But i was on three base and he was on two. so we're calling that one a win.

pat1487 wrote:

Yeah, i shouldve made them in that game with the swarm hosts, i was trying to figure out a way to deal with swarm hosts the whole time they were coming into our base and i eventually realized tempest was the only solution, but by that time i had no gas and no way to mine any more since we were contained

Still though, i feel like the cost of tempests are too much to deal with stuff that costs half as much
Plus the stuff that costs half as much are more effective in general, where as the tempest is specifically designed for tanks/swarm hosts
The only thing they counter that costs about the same are broodlords, but even broodlords are more effective in general
Yeah. you could've kinda supported them on two base. but not really since we were trying to just make enough units to match their supply.
Then again, if it lets us break the contain i guess its worth it.


1487 wrote:

Also, i have a bronze league hero quality replay to show you ach

yay
--------

so i finished my placement. (silver)
i went 4-1, but my only loss was to a "Bronze" player, that had been diamond the previous season. so, Yay, ratings thrown off by a sandbagger.
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:51 pm

Vampirism Galaxy.

So the more i play this game, the more i like it.
Its very much like vamp beast, and not much like vamp fire.
the reason being that vampires always seemed entirely overpowered in fire. i played around 100 fire games, and no one ever managed to survive with their base for very long, even when there was very little feed, and the rounds of human resources (when you'd get your first gold if you hadn't managed to steel any) always took too long, (i cant actually remember if they happened at all).

But in Galaxy, you get 'gold' (now vespine) around the same 5 minute mark, ive forgotten to check when you actually get it.

Also, when vampires get a lot of feed, it feels almost impossible, and when vamp feed is very low, it seems pretty easy for humans, which is the same way Beast always felt to me.
Also, you can use your slayer to buy vespine from the vamps base, in the infestation pit in the top right corner, for 7500 minerals each, which is a really nice feature.

I didn't know you could buy vespine until just now, which triggered my deciding to post.
i was getting a tad frustrated before, but now i feel like its very balanced.
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:13 pm

since this seems to be the Sc2 thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcOXnr12dk
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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:44 pm

It'd probably be ok to have thread(s) for updates. but w/e

the only thing i saw on there that peaked my interest was the "units lost" tab, which looks like it'd be really nice to have.
The seeking button is kinda cool, but i didn't think it was that cumbersome to watch replays through at 8x speed.
cuz even if a game goes for an 60 in game minutes (which is super rare) thats only 7.5 in game minutes you have to wait for, which is (i think) 7.5 * .7ish = 5.25, so even for the super long games you only have to wait 5 - 6 minutes IF you're trying to watch something at the very end.
but its still cool

Are there balance changes that weren't included in this vid? or are there just no balance changes for this patch

-----------------

EDIT: OMG some how my edit to my last post didn't go through. probably cuz im a noob and failed at clicking 'send'

But this is my DREAM STRAT, and thank god someone made it work, so i know the only way im playing sc2 from now on.
IDC IF THIS IS 2V2'S!! WE'RE DOING IT IN 1V1 ALL DAY EVERY DAY

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PostSubject: Re: the world's all about ach   Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:14 am

that game was awesome lol
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